41 | Bias your fútbol Content with real francamente

We are back! It’s been a while, but Miguel welcomed another friend and comrade of the podcast, Dr. Franca Fernández. Franca is the creator and host of the real francamente podcast!
 
I talk to Franca about Lionel Messi & his move to play for Inter Miami of Major League Soccer (MLS) and what it means for fútbol in the imperialist core, aka the US. We also discuss the racial abuse faced by Brazilian superstar Vinicius Jr in Spain’s La Liga and more!
 
Dr. Franca Fernández is a fútbol fanatic and scholar who believes in the intersection of fútbol and politics, history, and social justice.
 
You can Listen to the real francamente podcast on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts. You can follow them on Twitter: @realfrancamente.

Links:

realfrancamente.com: this weekend’s epic, historic final (Copa America Final 2021: Brasil v. Argentina)

To tackle racism in football Spain needs to face its history (Gabriel Leão/AlJazeera)

Lionel Messi to join MLS side Inter Miami after PSG departure (ESPN)

Miguel Garcia produced this episode. The Sports As A Weapon Podcast is part of the @Anticonquista Media Collective. Subscribe to the ANTICONQUISTA Patreon and follow ANTICONQUISTA on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and Tik Tok!

Also, listen/subscribe to the Sports As A Weapon Podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Deezer, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Transcript

Episode 41-Bias your Futbol Content with with real Francamente

​[00:00:00] 

Miguel: Hey everyone, it's Miguel. I'm back. We're back. Haven't done an episode in about six months, but I'm very excited to be back and very excited for the guest we're gonna have on [00:01:00] this new episode. . We're gonna talk about futbol and politics. Very excited to have this person on the podcast.

Talked about it for a while to get her on the podcast, so it's finally happening. I want to introduce Franca, Dr. Franca Fernandez, and she has a podcast called Real Francamente, and it's all about futbol, soccer, plus the politics. So, you know, kind of like this show, but she just talks about football and different topics and it's very awesome.

You should check out , her new episode, which I think you dropped today. And then the last episode was very good, which some of those kind of took some of your one of those topics from that episode you did that we're gonna talk about here today as well. And if y'all didn't forget, the sports As A Weapon Podcast is a Chicano /Chicana Sports podcast on the entanglement of sports radical politics and working class sports fan culture.

And don't worry, we talk about just sports. [00:02:00] too, the Sports As a Weapon podcast is part of the Anticonquista Media collective. Anticonquista is an anti-imperialist media collective. Our content is produced by and for the Latin American and Caribbean diaspora. We are dedicated to exposing and fighting the capitalist imperialist system, the root cause of our displacement.

And again,== subscribe to the Anticonquista Patreon, at Patreon backslash Anticonquista and follow Anticonquista on YouTube, Twitter, and Instagram. , gonna try to put some more content with videos for Anticonquista. So check that out. And then for this podcast the Sports as a Weapon podcast, again, follow us. Listen to us. Subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, and wherever you get your podcast.

Follow us on Twitter at Sports as a Weapon, and on Instagram and Facebook at Sports as a Weapon podcast. And we have a TikTok, but I don't really use it, so you could look me up on there too. But there's like a couple videos. [00:03:00] There's too many things. So yeah, let's get into it. Franca, if you want to introduce yourself, give the audience talk about your podcast and a little bit about yourself.

Franca: Sure. Thank you so much for having me. That was an awesome intro. My name is Franca Roibal Fernandez, and I have a podcast called Real Francamente which is not in any way a nod or a reference to Real Madrid. Some people think that, but like, listen to my first episode where I explain that that is not the case. It's a lot deeper than that.

 But yeah, it's , called Real Francamente. Look it up wherever you listen to your podcast and my social media, Twitter and, Instagram is at Real Francamente on both. I don't have a TikTok for that account. I have a TikTok for my, for my business account. But it, it's true that it's too much stuff, right? It's too much stuff.

 And I started the podcast because I feel like there's not enough, , like radical revolutionary voices. I'm so happy, by the way, like this has been, In the works for a while. We've been chatting ever since we [00:04:00] connected on Twitter. And it's so great to see that there's other people doing this right?

Because it feels like really, really lonely to be like anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist and like try to be in any sort of public space. Not that I'm trying to be in any public space, but I have a lot to say. Um, so the podcast was born cause a lot of people were like, you need to do something. Like, this is all like really valuable info and, you know, and knowledge and, and here we are.

I'm glad this is finally happening and I'm so excited to get into it. 

Miguel: Awesome, awesome. And again, it's Real Francamente not real. Yeah, of course. Yeah. She's not a, she hates a Real Madrid. So 

Yes, 

if you follow her, you'll find out. So let's get into it. There's a lot of stuff going on. I guess this was kind of a really good moment to finally get you on the podcast a good time.

Because I really wanna talk about this topic, and you were one of the first people I thought about to ask, and I was like, yeah, I'm, she wanted to come on the podcast a few, [00:05:00] few months ago. Then I kind of took a little hiatus. So it was perfect timing. So, 

Franca: yeah, 

Miguel: Messi, you know, he's leaving PSG and he's heading to the MLS.

It's technically not official yet. He hasn't signed the contract. But he's heading to Inter Miami, who was in last place in the MLS. And as my audience knows, I like futbol, soccer you know, I grew up with it, but I'm still kind of more not as hardcore fan as other sports. , that's the other reason why I want to have you on the podcast and previous podcast episodes on football, soccer you know, I wanted to have people that follow it way more hardcore than I do.

 So this is why we're here. So, Just want to ask you about Messi here. do you think this is, yeah. You know, they're talking about how huge this is gonna be for mm-hmm. Football here in the, you know, this settler country, the us, the United States. Do you think it's really gonna be a, a big thing for us soccer, or is it just a media, a media kind [00:06:00] of blowing it up with that narrative?

Franca: I have so many thoughts on this and also it's funny that you mentioned the word hardcore, cuz I think that, like, hardcore is literally the, like my last episode is called Where are the Knives? Okay. Like, where are the knives? It dropped today cuz I am ready to go at all times. Like Molotov cocktails, let's go.

Right? And that, and I was born into this sport, like literally like since before birth, you know, like I was born a fan. The, I have so many thoughts on the messy thing. So first of all, I think that. Okay, how do I start this? So, since MLS has existed I have been a fan of the New York, New Jersey Metro Stars, later sold out to the corporation Red Bull, and they're now the New York Red Bulls.

Since that sellout moment, I have had a love-hate relationship with this team. The a part of me that's very, very loyal to my teams could never [00:07:00] think of jumping ship, to another team. But that means that I just literally hate MLS more and more every single year. And like the Red Bulls do nothing to help themselves out, to make me hate them less.

 I say all that to say that. I have been an MLS quote unquote fan since its inception. I have the ticket to the very first Metro Stars game ever; and that was, you know, an, an iconic time Tab Ramos from, by the way, for the audience, I'm from Uruguay and Argentina, so that's why this is also extra special, to me.

This topic, fan since day one, literally day one of the league, okay? I was a kid. and. There, you will probably not find a bigger hater of the league than me. And it's one of those things where it's like, it's almost like our little sibling, right? We have little siblings and we can talk shit about them, but if's Oh, can we curse?

Sorry. 

Miguel: Oh yeah, you could curse. I put the little explicit thing on the podcast. I don't, cause I'll I curse a lot. Yeah. In general [00:08:00] I don't, but I, I try not to curse so too much. But I, it doesn't matter. It just, you know, it's in the flow. 

Franca: My podcast is like every other word and I, that's just how I naturally speak.

I have thoughts on that too, in terms of like professionalism, standards and, yeah. And capitalism. But anyway, I, I always forget to ask, so I'm glad. So, they don't do anything to help themselves out, right? So we can talk shit on our siblings. I was saying our little siblings, but if someone from outside tries to come in and talk shit about them, Then we're like, no, we protect them.

That's how I feel about MLS, because there's two levels to this, right? I hate MLS from the standpoint that it's too sanitized. , it's too United Station, right? It's like, it's super imperialist. They, they bow down to all this pressure. It's sanitized, it's bullshit, right? Like, I hate it from that perspective, but there is another perspective, which is like Euro snobs, or like people who are like gatekeepers, which I don't do, even though I'm like extremely knowledgeable on the sport.

Like I, I can't stand gatekeepers, right? and so from that perspective, I don't like euro snobs that come and trash hog [00:09:00] MLS as if their leagues weren't problematic, right? My number one thing is nuance. There's nuance in everything. And so that's where I'm coming from with my MLS hatred.

But from that hatred, Okay. I can tell you that the last thing I wanted for Messi who's the best player in the world? Unquestionably, undoubtedly there is no, there's no discussion on that, right? Like that's, you know, it, this is my house. the last thing I wanted was for him to come to this fucking hell hole and it's Inter Miami.

Miguel: Yeah. I know 

Franca: you're telling me 

Miguel: out of all the places,

Franca: but out all the fucking places, you're gonna go to Miami. Now we all know, 

Miguel: but it's not surprising, I guess,

Franca: right? 

Miguel: Yeah. 

Franca: Right. That's what I was gonna say. We all know it's, first of all, we all know it's a fucking farce. Okay. Now it's getting harder and harder to, like for me, one of the things I talk about a lot is like modern football and capitalism and everything has ruined like the essence of football, right?

It's getting harder and harder to find those [00:10:00] essential moments where you can really be like, this is the essence of the sport. And I say that because I think Messi. Is one of the last standing bastions where we can see some semblance of that. And here's where I'm going with that. The man has one interest in life, and it's kicking that ball.

He does not care about bullshit, about scandals, about this, about who's wearing what, what cars, whatever. Like he's a very humble man for being one of the most famous figures in the world. Not even sports figures. Like he's one of the most famous names in the world. Right? And you would never know it by the way he acts.

And so that's on the one hand we can defend. I will speak for myself, I can defend him for that. but lately it's getting harder and harder to defend him on that front because what is you doing? Okay. When he left Barcelona, I, I, we were all heartbroken. He was heartbroken. He did not wanna leave.

There's all sorts of like, contractual shit, you know, whatever. I don't think [00:11:00] I really believed he was going to PSG. Until I saw him in a kit, cuz I was like, there's no way he's gonna go to a sports washing, team, but who else could afford him? Right? But also could he have taken a pay cut. So there's all sorts of stuff, right?

All sorts of nuance that comes into play. I've never, 

Miguel: a lot of different contradictions 

Franca: so much, so much contradiction. I mean, that's existing under capitalism, right? 

Miguel: Mm-hmm. 

Franca: That's, that's the reality. But, they never appreciated him. P s G is a bullshit team anyway. Like, they're like, it's bullshit, right? Like it's, they have all this money, they don't know what to do with it. Yeah, sure. Like they'll win League on, right? But like, they don't do shit in Champions League. Like, they like Mbappe talks a lot of shit and he's just like, I can talk about Mbappe on again all day, like, especially recently, but, I never supported him being there.

So I've, I've been used to being like, all right, I'm gonna hate, I'm, I hate where, you know, where he is. He's never been appreciated. And then the rumors start, right? And it's like, is he going to Saudi Arabia? Is he going to back to Argentina? Every time it starts to happen where [00:12:00] like, he might leave somewhere, the rumors are like, back to Argentina or, you know, like whatever, Saudi Arabia.

So the, I guess the one silver lining here for Messi coming to this shithole is that it's not Saudi Arabia. Right. Which, and, and I say that not, and cuz we're gonna talk about this later I think, but, because of the, blatant like sports washing corruption, right? I think we're headed in a direction with football that there's gonna be a point of no return.

The Qatar World Cup was an example, but I also have a lot of nuanced feelings about that, which I can talk about for 70 years. But my point is I'm glad he didn't go there cuz at least, at least the US. Believe it or not right. Has a somewhat of a futbol history that Saudi Arabia doesn't. And so I don't know there's that to grasp onto.

But 

Miguel: yeah, even MLS, US soccer is a better league than Saudi Arabia, right? Just right in terms of right where the different level of play and stuff. 

Franca: And [00:13:00] you literally see just people go there for money. There's literally no other sh there's 

Miguel: no other chance. Yeah. Sorry. With, uh, we'll talk about him a little bit later.

But the French, , real Real Madrid superstar that just went there 

Franca: talking about, well, that's what they're, they're trying to like, yeah, yeah. We can talk about him. We, they're trying to, to pull every single, you know, every pull out, every single stop and obviously go there. Obviously Red Ndo too, rape ndo, um, as he's known in our circles.

 but no, I, I don't, I think first of all, the rumor mill, like the, this, like the, the gouging of the ticket prices. Like already people are like looking up when Inter Miami for example, like, cuz I am like in the Red Bull spaces, right? Like, oh, whenever, like Inter Miami comes to play for the, against the Red Bulls and then the, the ticket prices shoot up thousands of dollars.

First of all, you, we don't e nothing's official. And secondly, you know, that if it's this season, the man's not gonna play. He's not gonna travel. He, he's not gonna come here. He [00:14:00] hasn't, hasn't even landed. You think he's gonna get here and start playing games immediately, like it's fucking Lionel Messi like that you're, you're not getting to see him for a while this season, if at all, if maybe 

Miguel: in August or September or something 

Franca: right at that time.

And so like people, like this is what I hate about this. United Station Sport, United Station football space as a whole. It's all so fucking superficial that like that man, I've seen him play a couple times, live , in different, you know, in different circumstances. Like, but like, it's this like obsession with, you know, with immediately being like, oh my God.

Like, I can't stand it. I can't stand it. I think. I don't, I, I can't even you. Okay. Let me, let, let, let me regroup here cuz I have so many thoughts. Okay. US football is never going to grow until we get rid of a [00:15:00] lot of shit in MLS. One of it is the salary cap, unfortunately because we know that the salary cap, there's ways around it and also it doesn't have noble anti-capitalist intentions.

Okay? It's literally, if you wanna, we, we have to realize that if we want to grow the sport in the country and we're anti-capitalist, those two things are already not compatible. So we have to put that aside to say what is actually gonna grow the sport in this country if we want it to, one of them salary cap.

The other one unfortunately be, and I say unfortunately, because a lot of the people that engage in this discussion are like white, like misogynist bros. But the reality is that if we don't have pro Rel in this country, it's never gonna be shit. Promotion and relegation is like the thing in the world sport.

Every single country, right? That that is good at football. That's the one thing they have in common. How are you gonna have a competitive league and someone can, like, teams can just coast through. [00:16:00] Cause you can watch an entire half of an MLS season. Season and it does not matter cuz the fucking playoffs is what matters in this country, right?

Like, imagine like they need that. So United Station. So if you don't have promotion and relegation, the, the sport's never gonna grow. You can bring all the superstars you want. Look at how many superstars have already come. And the sport you can't get in the New York area. You cannot get a reputable mainstream source to cover the Red Bulls or even N Y C F C.

You are gonna tell me? Oh. Cause the sport has grown so much where, because you put yourselves, I'm talking to MLS fans, right? Like the plastic, like regular ones, like the superficial ones. You put yourselves in such a bubble that you delude yourselves into thinking that the sport is growing. But you can't even get a byline in a newspaper where they talk about the Giants, the Jets, the, you know, like the, the baseball teams and whatever other teams in the area.

And they barely, if ever even mention anything about the Red Bulls or N Y C F C. You can bring all [00:17:00] the superstars you want, but until you fix these essential problems that this league has, it's never gonna work. I think the Messi deal is a mess, literally, like pun intended. Okay. I think it's drama.

It's a soap opera. I have not engaged in anything. If you've seen on Twitter, I've barely even tweeted about anything with messy to Inter. Cuz I don't wanna, I don't wanna engage, I don't wanna participate. I don't wanna give it to the algorithm. Like I do not care. When the drama started, and I mentioned this in my last episode, and it was only briefed at the end cuz nothing was official, it still isn't.

But I'm tired of the drama, I'm tired of the drama. Fucking decide what you're doing and, and that's it. And let's just deal with it, right? Like I'm never gonna be a person that's like, oh, I have to go to an inter game now cuz I'm, cuz to be honest, I, he'll never fall off the pedestal for me as an idol.

But I do lose a little bit of respect for him for, for coming here because we all know [00:18:00] why. We all know why. There's literally no other reason but money and it's just a capitalist, like 

Miguel: yeah, 

like the fact that MLS needs Apple and Adidas to give him a percentage of their sponsorships he's not coming just because the MLS

 Like you're saying, I guess if it was growing to the level that some people say he wouldn't need to get enticed by Adidas or, uh, Apple, the Apple subscription, um, to get, to come to MLS. 

Franca: Not only that, but that's how they get around the salary cap because not only are they offering him like money from Apple and from Adidas, but they're offering him like ownership possibilities.

You know, like they have to offer him all this extra shit cuz of the salary cap and then it's like, and I think that that's also kind of fucked. For players that have been like, loyal to MLS, right? Like now we like are giving all of this stuff to the superstar. Now, on the other hand, obviously it's Messi and I, I want him to get whatever, but I just, I'm [00:19:00] so torn about this, I'm so disenchanted.

and I'm just so over MLS that I really wish, I just wish he would've said, fuck it and gone back to Argentina, to mules. Like, I, I don't know what he's doing. I don't know what he's thinking. I, his dad has been his agent his whole life and his dad's like, kind of problematic. So I'm sure a lot of it has to do with that.

Like Messi, there's always been these jokes and these, like, there used to be a blog about this, I mean like, like 15 years ago. that was like Messi is just like a little baby, like a child, like a toddler, right? And so all he wants to do is play ball. And it was like all these different scenarios I remember.

And it was hilarious cuz it's true, like, I feel like, like at the World Cup. On the day where he hit like a milestone, it was like his thousandth game, right? He came off the pitch, they interviewed him and they were like, oh, how does it feel to play your thousand game or whatever. He was like, oh, that was today.

Like he had no clue. He doesn't give a fuck about anything. He doesn't care about records, but whatever. He cares about kicking that ball in the net and that's it. And I think [00:20:00] to that, to some extent, that essence is still there and a lot of it has to do with his dad's influence. but I just, I'm not impressed.

I'm not happy about it. to come and play in like the literal like evil empire fucking like center is just, cuz you, you can say whatever you want about PSG, but France at and, and France is obviously colonizers. And this is also goes back to the World Cup discussion too. But like the reality is that like society in France will riot when they need to.

And I think that's admirable. So like when you put two things on the pedestal, Like, nothing compares to the level of evil in the US in my opinion. Right. And so, like, not that he's thinking about that, but I just, I can't, I can't get behind it. I don't think anything will come of this besides circus, like circus and like drama and then the league's still gonna be shit until you fix those things.

Right? I've always thought since the supporter shield [00:21:00] existed that the supporter Shield winner is the winner of the league. I'm not delusional. I know that the playoffs matter in the champion matter, but in my heart, the supporter Shield is a, it's the winner on points in the rest of the world.

That is how you win a league. And now here we have to like be United Station and have these playoffs. Like, I hate the playoffs man. I hate the playoffs. and until those like essential, like substantial things change about MLS, it's never gonna be shit We can say all we want, that it's growing in this and that expanding the league in terms of number of teams does not mean that the league has grown. It means you've gotten more fucking billionaires involved. Congratulations. 

Miguel: And you ripped off 

more cities with taxpayer money to build stadiums with 

Franca: taxpayer money and like, fuck so many things cuz like, look at NYC FC has been a, disaster class in how to handle a team. They like, they have no stadium.

Like it's a whole still play at Yankee Stadium, right? 

They still play at Yankee Stadium. It's a whole, like, that's like the [00:22:00] one thing about the Red Bulls, like when they play in NYC FC, like usually the Red Bulls win, , more often than not. And like that's the one thing that we can be like, all right, at least City Group, right?

it's suffering, but like, not that Red Bull is not much better, but It's just a mess, man. It's a mess. I hate it. I hate everything about it. And, I still have like a tiny little bit of hope that false We'll wake up and they'll be like, yeah, but not for Saudi, not for a Saudi Arabia team. Like he 

Miguel: They were offering him 400 million.

Franca: That's insane. That is insane. The fact that there is even that much money even being talked about in a sport like most people can't even fathom how much a million is, let alone that amount. Like it's insane, man. 

Miguel: Yeah. So the other topic which pisses me off, but it's something that's always happening in European soccer and European football, Brazilian Real Madrid Superstar Vinicius Jr.

Who I, I guess I just read today is taking over number seven now. Mm-hmm. for Real [00:23:00] Madrid. but yeah. Recently, a couple weeks ago, I talked about it on, so I go on By Any Means Necessary on radio Sputnik every Friday. Do the sports segment on sports and politics. So a couple weeks ago, when it happened, you know, I talked about it, but, uh, Vinicius Jr.

Faced racist abuse from Spanish football fans, I think when they were facing Valencia. Mm-hmm. but when I was learning about this, I read more how, like this has been happening for like a year. Yeah. And I'm sure I probably saw it before, but like, I was like, wait, I kind of just learned about this happening to him with this latest incident.

So it's been happening for a whole year and I'm like, well, I was, no, nothing's obviously was done about it and it continued. So yeah, I just wanna talk about that, which you talked about on one of your recent episodes. you are very knowledgeable when it comes to the history of, uh, Laga Spanish football and, uh, you know, the history of racism with when they were under, uh, the fascist, Dictator of Franco.

Could you talk about [00:24:00] Vinicius Jr all that stuff that's been happening, and then just kind of the history between Spanish fascism and football, 

Franca: Yeah, absolutely. This is my favorite topic. The reason why I have like a few, like a little, like tiny following on, Twitter on my personal account before Real Francamente existed.

I made a thread about this that went like baby viral. and it was about like the fascist roots of Real Madrid versus like Barcelona, you know, being standing more for freedom and what that meant. And of course, again, With the disclaimer that modern football ruins everything. There's no delusion that Barcelona is not corrupt or all that stuff, but you know, history does matter.

So with that said, I cannot believe these motherfuckers have made me defend a Real Madrid player. Okay, let me start there because I can't, I can't with y'all like fucking racist. I'm defending a Real Madrid player. He has been speaking out about this for a while, and it's not new. Not only is it not new to him, but it's not new to black players in Spain in [00:25:00] general.

 And it's not new to Spain in general, it's not even new in Brazil. Brazil has racism too. but what I admire about this kid, and I have to say it even though he plays for Real Madrid, is that he is so outspoken that he's like the one solitary voice, right? historically, Spain is a country. Of colonizers.

Spain is like one of the biggest colonizing countries in the world as we know, and that colonization was rooted Colonization is literally white supremacy, right? Like there's no, like there's no other, you know, we can talk about like if their efforts were, you know, about Catholicism or whatever, but like that's fucking bullshit too cuz that Catholicism was also rooted in white supremacy.

So like it's not even a discussion when you have a country that is rooted in being one of the biggest colonizers in the world, that legacy stays. And in Spain, so many, and again, I said this on my episode of my podcast on this, but I'll say [00:26:00] it here again. Like, I am born in Argentina because my parents were exiled during the dictatorship.

My whole family's Uruguayan, but my ancestry is all Italian and Spanish. I am full colonizer blood. Okay? Unfortunately, and in the southern cone, the majority of indigenous populations were wiped out, which is also embarrassing. I say that because while. Identity should not be a requirement for being able to speak on a topic, cuz I think we can go in the other direction with that, where we're like listening to fascists who just happened to share an identity with us.

Like we're not doing that. But I also have a PhD in, in, in Latin American and Spanish, language, Latin American, you know, studies and Spanish language. So I have read a lot of fucking books. Okay. On this. I've read all of the colonizers diaries, all that bullshit I had to read for my PhD. And that's my disclaimer because I'm not just speaking out of my ass here.

If Spaniards come for us, okay? Like I literally have a PhD in this shit. So Spain is arguably one of the most [00:27:00] racist countries in the world. And not only are they racist against black people, and African, refugees, but Latin Americans too, they have some of the worst names for Latin Americans when they go there.

When without us, you ain't shit. A Spain, all right, Spaniards. you could not keep your fucking empire running without coming here to pillage everything from our continent. So let's start there. and then when you get to, you know, to their Civil War period in the 1930s, and then you've got Francico Franco, who is one of the worst fascists in the history of the world.

And I say that because everyone knows the big ones, right? but Francico Franco, we didn't have the luxury of Francico Franco dying immediately. he ruled for like, fuck till like 1975. And he died. Yeah. Forever. He died a hero. He died a hero.

Because the reality is that fascists in Spain. there are more fascists than not in Spain, and we see it [00:28:00] with Vox and we see it with all of these political movements recently. So all of that to say that racism not only is there and very like ingrained, but it is like the fabric of what Spaniard culture is based on, there are a few pockets of liberation.

That's where Barcelona, the city comes in and where Barcelona, the team at the time of the Civil War came in and how that, you know, was a kind of like a space for folks who were trying to leave the fascism of Madrid, all that stuff. But the reality is it's one of the most racist countries in the world.

 it's one of the most racist in Europe, if not the most racist in Europe. The fact that Laga has no real mechanism because. To switch to Premier League for one second. And Premier League's not perfect, and there's so many racists in England too, but they at least have a semblance of a system for dealing with racist.

Right. And it's like no tolerance or whatever. Like Laga doesn't even yeah. ban 

Miguel: fans. I know there was something recently with a fan that got banned [00:29:00] because he said a racial slur to a player. 

Franca: and they have, you know, the CCTV or whatever and they like, and which is surveillance and that's a whole other topic, but like, when it's used, you know, to, to ban racists, like, fine.

but La Liga has nothing. I don't even know, and I haven't looked this up to be honest. so I don't know if, if it has happened, but I don't even know if anyone has faced any repercussions for what they did to Vinicius. 

Miguel: So I know seven people went to court and I was researching it, which just happened like a week ago maybe.

Franca: Mm-hmm. 

Miguel: So it wasn't just the same people that, with this latest incident that was a couple weeks ago where the Valencia fans called him Mono,, which if you guys don't know, it was a racist.... term it's monkey in Spanish. but it was past incidents. Like someone burned a effigy of Vinicius Jr. So I know some of those people they got charged and stuff.

So there was something, but it was outside of La Liga, you know, it was actual, right. The actual government court system, you know? 

Franca: Yeah. It's outside of Laga and then like the president of the league is like a disgusting fascist to like anyone that came out to defend the league and be like, oh no, this is not who we [00:30:00] are or whatever.

 But like my favorite defense is people who say like, oh no, they don't understand our culture. Like this is just part of our culture. Like, bitch, first of all, if your culture is being racist, like you are telling on yourself, Hey, I would not use that excuse. Right? Like, imagine telling on yourself like that.

Right? Like I would, could never, and so they're like, oh no, they don't understand our culture. Like I franca. Okay. Understand that culture more than probably anyone. And trust me when I say it's not cultural, It's not cultural. You are choosing to be racist. I think it is disgusting too, that only he has spoken out, like the people with privilege who are around him are just, you know, and there has been some like, you know, nice, you know, moments of solidarity with, you know, teams coming out with like a shirt that says, we're all with you I forget what it all said.

There was TFO at one point and so like that's all fine and well, but what I always bring it back to is what are you doing in your personal life [00:31:00] to make sure this shit doesn't happen anymore? Because whenever this shit happens, it's always like, oh my God, someone should do something. Yeah. But then no do anything someone should do.

So maybe someone is you, what are you doing? So everyone loves to take their, you know, the responsibility off of themselves, but what are you actually doing? I wanna know, what are you actually doing? You're like, someone should do something. Yeah. Maybe someone is you start speaking out. Cause you know what, Vinicius is one of the most famous cases, but I guarantee you it's happening in your workplace, at your school.

Okay. I do diversity, equity, and inclusion consulting for a living. Like it's happening everywhere. And if you only get outraged when it happens to famous figures, you're telling on yourself too. What are you doing in your personal life to help? Okay. It is disgusting. The fascism is so ingrained and fascism is literally just white supremacy, right?

Like gone wild. in the, in the grand sense that like, I believe that, I truly believe that Spaniards who defend this, Really are [00:32:00] delusional. Like they really think that they're doing something with their defense. And the reality is the fascism's so ingrained, they don't even see it.

Now, I could go a lot more into the history, if you'd like me to, in terms of like that, you know, that Real Madrid like fascism piece, or we can move on from topics, but like, I have a lot more to say, but like the bottom line is, yeah, you want to, you could talk about that. Yeah, sure. So, okay, so the fact that Vinicisus plays for Real Madrid as a black man, is already so it's like, I get it, you know, there's money, there's influence, it's Real Madrid, whatever, but it's already like, why did you do that?

Like, why did you do that? I don't have data, but I feel like probably the majority of. Fascists, The majority of racists Right. Are fans of these teams, right? Of like these fascist teams. So Vinicius, first of all, my first advice to you is to leave Real Madrid and leave [00:33:00] Spain altogether, right?

Like, bye. No more. No. but Real Madrid, the fascism, so Francico Franco was a fan of Real Madrid. He ruled, let's do some math. 19, 39 to 1975. Okay? I don't know how long that is. 

Miguel: That's almost 40 years. Almost 40 years. Almost 40 years. 

Franca: Almost 40 years, okay? In that time period, you've got a fascist dictator that's a fan of a team.

Now I know there's haters who are out there like, oh, here's this evidence that says that. No, and it's all false. It's not fucking false. We have to start, we have to remember to trust people's collective memory and not so much, you know, whatever you read on your little like articles. Because guess who has access to the written word?

It's usually the victors. Right? So let's start there, but secondly, okay, for 40 years, your dictator, your fa, and we're talking real dictatorship cuz everyone in the US loves to call people [00:34:00] dictators when they just don't know what the fuck words mean. Right? This 

one, yeah. Usually when they being anti-communists, they're calling the, you know, leaders of our communist.

They don't, Latin American 

country is fascist. They don't know what that, what words mean. So we've got an actual fascist, repressive, murderous dictator, fan of a team. And you mean to tell me that that has no influence on the titles they won during that time? When there's pictures of Real Madrid as a team.

Literally doing the Nazi salute as a 

Miguel: Yeah. And there's a reason they're named after the crown. Like pretty much 

Franca: the crown is fascist as fuck. Yep. And so if you're proudly leaning into that already, that's questionable. Right. So you've got this history. So Real Madrid in Madrid, the epicenter of fascism, cuz even in, I think it was in 2016, but my timeline, like after Covid, I don't even know what time is right.

Not that we're out of Covid. but, I think it was [00:35:00] 2016, there was a referendum in Barcelona famously, you know, people like, Pique voted in that referendum and everything. Barcelona has always wanted to secede. Mm-hmm. I bring this up because this is 2016 or whenever it was in the two thousands. Okay.

Like recent, they voted, they, they set up a, you know, like a referendum to vote to secede and they won. And Madrid in 2016 sent their fascist police force to repress these people voting. There's pictures of a little old lady, literally a little old lady being carried out by policemen from the polling place.

Okay, so you mean to tell me that this history didn't persist when we're in 2016 and your fascist epicenter police in Madrid is out here repressing old people's voting rights. 

Miguel: Yeah, for reals 

Franca: and nothing came of it. Nothing came of it. so imagine, just [00:36:00] imagine when Francico Franco was the dictator. How much pull that has you ca the most like naive fascist apologist cannot defend.

Real Madrid's titles under a Francisco Franco's regime. And then what that legacy leaves. Right. He was very open. The reason why it's juxtaposed with Barcelona Okay. As a Barcelona was like a city of liberation. Where folks would go and actually, , Camp Nou was used as a refugee place for people who were trying to leave Madrid for like communists and anarchists and, you know, and just anyone who was persecuted, to use as a refuge right before they escaped to France.

Right. That was the route. But you've got a dictator who, during his, time didn't allow for any Catalan . To be spoken because that is literal linguistic repression, right? [00:37:00] where, you know, we talk racism. This is repression based on a marginalized identity, which is a different language that's spoken, right? In Catalonia And so he didn't allow anything, anything like Camp Nou had to be called the new camp. And you know, and there's all sorts of stuff from that linguistic repressive period that now Barcelona embraces as a team because of that history. And so all of this can't be separated from cuz now people have to be like, well, like Barcelona's. corrupt Now sure they are because FIFA's corrupt, FIFA's the most corrupt organization. 

Miguel: So that's 

what happens when capitalist billionaires get 

involved? 

Franca: Exactly, and the only way to exist as a team in 2023 is to be corrupt. There's no other way, but let's not get it twisted because people who, let's not throw stones.

I always say this, I've said this so much on my podcast, right? We are all fucking hypocrites. We've got two options. We can either admit we're fucking hypocrites, okay, cuz we're criticizing it, but we're still watching it. Or we can shut the fuck up, right? Like [00:38:00] what? Like what are the options? My choice is to try to wake some people up to it while it's my literal passion since I was born, and I'm gonna keep, you know, hate watching.

I can at least make people aware of these things that they just don't know about. That's how I kind of like rationalize it to myself, but like, yeah, Barcelona's corrupt, but this history is also real. And so you've got this juxtaposition , of Barcelona as the representation of liberation in Spain.

Okay? And then Real Madrid as the literal fascist repressive regime. , that legacy stays with you, right? And so of course you're gonna have in a country that celebrates, that fascism, that royal crown, that all of that the most racist fans, right? And here's how you know it's racism cuz people are like, the cultural piece is interesting when people say culture, cuz I do think there's times where we can kind of look at that cultural difference for certain words that are used in certain context.

but with [00:39:00] this, okay, whenever you want to attack a black player and you go to a racial slur, there is no context that excuses that. And that's where you see that fascism, even Real Madrid's own fans have been racist towards Vinicius. He said it before, right? Yeah, that's, 

he said it before like that.

Miguel: A lot of the past incidents within the past years actually with his own fans from his, you know, with his own team

Franca: he's doing something about it by putting himself out there. He put the target on his back because all these fascists in Spain come and they're like, oh, he's a troublemaker. He's this, he's that.

He's just shut up and play ball. But it's convenient when they choose to use that shut up and play ball. Excuse. 

Miguel: It's like, it's just how we work, how they do it over here in the US when it comes to, you know, black athletes. Same thing. 

Franca: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's the same thing. It's like, shut up and play ball.

But like, if they're Trump supporters, it's okay for them to not shut up. Or if they're Christians, then it's like, oh, they're being repressed. Like you are a fucking hypocrite. Right? You're a fucking hypocrite. [00:40:00] And so, but to, to go back to the, to the real Madrid thing, it's like you can't separate those things.

Oh, the cultural piece, you, when you are insulting someone, and the first thing you grasp onto is that racial piece, there is no context and no explanation, no cultural context that will make you not be racist in that moment because you used it as an in, as an insult, right? And so that context has to come in.

So it's wild. It's wild that we're still having this discussion in 2023. It's not surprising. and I hope Venices keeps like speaking out if he wants to, but what I really, really hope is that. More people step up and say shit when it happens. And especially people who are not marginalized in that same way.

Like we need people who are privileged to come out and be like, this is not okay. Right. Because it's unfortunate, but when only marginalized people speak out against something they get, you know, labeled as [00:41:00] victims or they're just this, or using this race card or whatever.

Miguel: Just, just starting trouble 

being too loud, all that stuff.

Franca: Being the angry minority, right? Like, and so we need more of, like more people to, to, to speak out. But, you know, it's disheartening when this keeps happening and we keep seeing like the same defenses over and over again. It's just, it's absurd. 

Miguel: Yeah. And before we switch topics, the La Liga president, I believe is a.

Bolsonaro, like supporter, fan, like, you know, the, the former Brazilian president, right wing president. Yeah. You know, the, the Trump of Brazil. 

Franca: Talk about dictator like that man. Oh my God. Like he was so bad. And like that's telling right there. That's telling right there, right? 

Miguel: Yep. So the other topic I want to talk about, we talked about it a little bit, kind of touched on it a little bit, Saudi Arabia. we just saw the PGA tour. I'm not a big golf fan, but the PGA Tour just merged with LIV [00:42:00] Golf, which is run by Saudi Arabia. For like a year, they were complain, talking crap about players and putting pressure on them to not join LIV Golf and trying to talk about all the atrocities, human rights abuses that Saudi Arabia has done, you know, but they always ignored the US side of it.

 Recently UFC and WWE wrestling, like merged, there seems to be this merger in sports with , big billionaire companies. And it kind of reminded me of wanting to talk about this, which, you know, about a year, year and a half ago, a lot of the big European, the big teams, the big European teams, you know, Manchester City, Manchester, others, Real Madrid, etc., we're trying to form the Super League.

So it kind of made me think about that. Like, okay, these mergers are happening. do you think they might try for a super league again now that we're seeing other sports, you know, kind of joining forces and just, you know, billionaires joining, keeping more of their money to themselves.

Franca: I hate [00:43:00] everything about this. Yeah. I don't want this really to happen. Hate. No, the Super League thing was such trash. I mean, I think that's another place where we saw like a pocket of like some semblance of that like old school, you know, football, um, essence. And, and I, and I wanna kind of define that a little bit.

So like, football is the democratizing sport in the world. At its essence. Football is the democratizing sport. And by that I mean that it's played, first of all, it's the number one sport in the world. It's played everywhere in the world. And the, the people that make it, the people that are good come from nothing usually.

And my thing that I say a lot is, it's one of those controversial things, right? Rich people will never be good at sports because they don't know what the fuck hunger is. When you've never gone to bed hungry, [00:44:00] you do not need. You don't feel the, the passion for anything, let alone sports. And so when you've got like the best athletes in the world, they come from nothing, from the favelas, from like the, you know, , the shanty towns, right?

 Because when you are so hungry to get out of that, that pushes you and football, you don't need anything. You could use a balled up newspaper as a ball and you just need your skills. That's it. You can play barefoot, right? So it's the democratizing sport in the world. And that's what I mean by that essence of when football was still pure.

And, you know, and like in the beginning, like there's a whole thing, especially with, with Uruguay Argentina, but the saying down there is that the Brits, sure the Brits invented the sport, but we perfected it. Right, because today, and let me pause here to add this in. Okay? Cuz Uruguay, I just won the U 20 World Cup and I saw you can't tell me nothing today, nothing.

Swap a thing. And I was like, this is [00:45:00] nuts. This is nuts. The current reigning world champion of the World Cup is Argentina. Now Uruguay, just the, the, the reigning world champion of U 20 is Uruguay, the reigning Olympic Champions, Brazil. Okay? Those are world fucking tournaments that the Southern Cone and South America supremacy prevails.

That is fucking huge for the global south. Okay? It has been years since this has been happening. Like the history, the the first World Cup was played in Uruguay, all right? 1930. That history is heavy. It weighs, right? I say all this to say, That the Brits invented the sport and we perfected it and still to this day.

And for Europeans who love to be like, and especially little Mbappe , okay with little turtle ass face. All right, we'll go and be like, oh, there's no skill. Yeah. Like South America has go, first of all, your team ain't shit without South America. So [00:46:00] let's just start there. And secondly, let's look at the southern cone supremacy of the current reigning champions in every single fucking tournament that's global.

All right. And shut the fuck up for starters. Okay. anyway, that was my side note to talk about these pockets of that essence. And I think that is one of them. The fact that the global south teams with the lack of resources that we have, cuz the reality is that AUF, right Uruguayan, I'm wearing my Uruguay kit today as a, as an organization is corrupt as fuck.

We had El Maestro Tabarez as the coach, and he's the coach in the history of the world , with the longest coaching streak. He's like in the Guinness World Records, right? He wasn't getting paid half the time by AUF. He did that shit for the passion. All right. And I say that because it's I think in the southern cone of South America, in the global south is where we still have that essence of football and sometimes there's pockets.

And so I, I I, I wanted to explain that this was [00:47:00] another pocket when teams, when big teams came out to publicly denounce the Super League. I think that was another pocket of that essence of football still being like, wait, hold on a second. Now again, these are teams that sure, for sure take Qatari money and they have stadiums named, you know, whatever, this, this and that.

But the fact that they had the, The decency, I guess, to not be so cynical. Cause the second the super league happens, it's over. I'm already mm-hmm. Like the, the sport is in a slippery slope into like full-blown imperialism. Right. capitalism, like ruin.

And we're almost there, but we're still seeing these little pockets of, of where we can grasp and be like, Ugh, that is, that's, that's a place where we can hold onto. And I think that these teams coming out against the Super League was one of those pockets. Right. and they're not gonna stop trying.

Miguel: No, they're not.

That's what I'm thinking. They're, I think they're gonna, I think they're gonna [00:48:00] try to do this again. They're not gonna cause seeing the trend in other sports in the world, 

like 

Franca: Yeah. Yeah. And it's unfortunate. and it's, and it's not, you know, because there's also like, I don't know, I, I just, I.

It's, gonna be a sad day, I think, when it does happen. And for now, all we can do is resist. 

Miguel: Yeah. The only way 

we can stop it is just, you know, thinking big pictures destroying capitalism.

Franca: That's literally the goal. 

Miguel: That's where the root is at 

right? 

Franca: That's the goal. Destroying capitalism, you'll destroy all this shit.

And in the meantime, we could try to advocate for, you know, for this not happen. And if it does happen, we can all just watch South American football. It's a lot more fun. 

Anyway. 

Miguel: Oh, and speaking of, you know, I'm sure a lot of people in my audience might know about this book, but, uh, just if talking about the essence of football in South America, you know, there's a famous book, it's very political, football in Sun and Shadow by, you know, Galeano.

So [00:49:00] if you guys wanna check that book out, it's, you know, legendary book that Everyone should read. 

Franca: Yes. 

Miguel: If you're a sports fan and you're into, you know, radical politics, you need to read that book. But I'm sure a lot of you that listen to this podcast maybe haven't or know about the 

book. 

Franca: It's the Bible man.

Mm-hmm. It, it is literally the book. I did an episode on this and it was bilingual. I read some in Spanish and some in English and analyzed it. And, , it's my highest, like my highest listened to episode because people, like, that's the thing, right? I'm like, and when I was talking about the essence of football, that's exactly what I was thinking about.

I was gonna be like, it's Galeano esque, right? I, I always say that like, it's Galeano esque cuz that book, is it, that book is it even Sports Illustrated named it like one of the hundred greatest sports books of all time. Which is surprising cuz like, you know, capitalist publications usually. Don't, you know, , don't rate those things, but that book, that's how good that book is.

Like, read it immediately if you're listening, if you haven't, because that's where you're gonna get a lot of this. Also, first of all, the history, but also he writes with such a beauty, like a poetic beauty , [00:50:00] that like makes you forget your reading because it's not fiction. It's not fiction, but he writes like a poet and so it makes you feel like, oh my God, it's so beautiful.

And he, these are tho these pockets are like things like, I'm always thinking like, Galeano would love this, you know, when this happens. I talked to us briefly in my last episode, but Galliano would love, for example, that Luton Town went up and it's gonna be in Premier League because you have to walk into people's gardens to get into their stadium.

Like Galeano like, that's like football of the people, you know, like these little pockets. He would just love it. So, 

Miguel: and that's, that's why I wish, you know, MLS wasn't, you know, it's in the US so it's obviously using a US sports system, but imagine if all these little towns had their own pro soccer teams and then they move up.

Yeah. And that, that made me think of the past, like, so, you know, before integration in baseball, you know, we had the Negro Leagues and then in Latino and specifically Chicano, Mexican, like communities. We had baseball teams cuz we weren't allowed to play with white people. And it was sponsored by, by your community, like your church, a little [00:51:00] local business.

And it was like semi-pro baseball. Like it made me think of like, imagine if they even had that in those sports when a little town could go up to like the top level and like even maybe win a championship. Like it's just like, well that, that's like the beauty of sport right there. That's if when you take out capitalism, 

Franca: That's exactly it.

That is what I still love about Premier League especially, believe it or not, because obviously, you know, Spain, La Liga also, you know, like has little teens go up sometimes. Like we have to give a shout out to Rayo Vallecano which is like the anti-imperialist team in Spain, right. and like leagues, you know, everywhere have this dynamic where any little team can, uh, can go up.

But Luton Town, I think, how long was it? 14 years ago, they were literally non-league and they worked their way all the way up to Premier League. That's fucking beautiful. That's what happens when you've got Pro Rel and so like the Pro rel bros aside, like they can all die, right? But that essence of like, imagine your [00:52:00] hometown team being able to work their way up.

Now, does it mean that we get delusional and we're like, oh, you know, like, oh, it's the American dream, everyone's gonna make it. No they're not. Well, like the reality is the majority of them won't make it. But the fact that they could, and that you see these Cinderella stories happen, like it's so beautiful in Galeano esque, that like until we get that MLS ain't gonna be shit.

Never. It's not gonna happen. 

Miguel: Before we come back, I'm doing a little, , advertisement, just my own personal one, if people have heard the podcast before, it's usually before the podcast, but now it's gonna be in the middle of the podcast. So.

[00:53:00] 

Miguel: All right, so we're back. we're almost done here, but we got a couple more topics to talk about. Staying with a Saudi Arabia topic. So like we talked about earlier, Messi almost, you know, went to Saudi Arabia cuz they're buying a lot of players. , obviously also teams in Qatar also own some teams like in the Premier League, like Newcastle and all that stuff.

 But they've been buying players. Ronaldo was obviously the first one to go over there, give him a bunch of money. We talked about a little bit of the connection of what happened with golf to the [00:54:00] potential of Super League, but they're doing the same thing in golf. You know, recently they got a French superstar player, Karim Benzema to join.

I think he got like a three year contract for like almost 600 million, which is insane just to go play in Saudi Arabia. And you know, they almost got Messi for 400 million with golf. They tried to get Tiger woods for 800 million. , so you know, they're just buying players and teams left and right. So they should get criticism because we know what.

You know, we know what happens over there, , when it comes to certain issues with human rights, but Yep. There's also the whole Orientalism thing that always comes into play. Mm-hmm. You always hear them getting criticized in how their sports, sports washing football or golf or whatever. But we don't hear the same thing when it comes to, uh, you know, Europeans and uh, US billionaires.

So I just wanted to get your, opinion on that as well. 

Franca: Yeah. 

Literally we 

Miguel: heard it 

in the World Cup, like, [00:55:00] you know, with Qatar there was a lot of criticism. Yeah. But you know, there's no criticism when it comes to the US when they're gonna host the, the World Cup 

coming up. The next one. 

Franca: I love this question so much.

I love this question so much cuz during the World Cup, I definitely made enemies for this and I've talked about it on my podcast. Me too too. But like literally, I would tweet like, okay, if you hate human rights abuses, Let me tell you about the next country that's hosting the World Cup after this one.

Cause Right? I can't, I'm triggered by this question because of the level of like, liberals that are out here, like just being like so self-righteous about human rights abuses and like Qatar and then like, there was that unfortunate situation with Grant Wahl, right? Mm-hmm. When Grant Wahl? 

Yeah. 

Miguel: Oh, right away there was a rumor that what if they murdered him?

Like they 

murdered him, dude. 

Franca: Which like, okay, you, like I get, if it's like his family and they, they're trying to find answers. Mm-hmm. I get, I get like, grief makes you say weird stuff and like do weird stuff. But like, this was regular fucking fans who [00:56:00] were like, oh my God, it was this and it couldn't, like, first of all, how self-important and self-centered are you to think that?

A United Station would be like even on the radar of some, like a United Station, fucking like journalist. 

Miguel: Yeah. And he's like probably the most, he's, he was the most famous US like journalist for soccer, for football. Like Saudi Arabia or Qatar. Qatar. Cuz this was in Qatar. How stupid would they be to even do something like 

that?

Franca: Right? Like, so, like, so you gotta be hella stupid. So that like I, there was so much of that going around in the World Cup, like, oh, it's sports washing or like, no, like not the sports washing thing. Like, it was like, oh, it's this and it's like so terrible human rights abuses or whatever. And it's like, let me introduce you to the history of the fucking World Cup.

I did a lot of lives a about this like, like Instagram lives during the World Cup. Cause I didn't have a podcast yet, but. One was specifically about this, right? Like the 1978 World Cup was held in Argentina. [00:57:00] Argentina won it, and in 1978, Argentina was in the height of the repressive. CIA-backed and ordered Operation Condor.

Dictatorship. They gave Argentina that World Cup to sports wash. Sports Washing is not a new term, and it is not exclusive to brown countries. Okay? And so the, the, the World Cup has always been corrupt as fuck. Okay? There is issues when they were building stadiums with slave labor also in, Brazil. It happened.

And so like, people, like the selective thing with liberals of being like, oh, like those brown guys. Yeah. They're like, they don't, you know, there's human rights abuses there. Like, what about here? Literally like women just lost the right to their own body. 

Last summer 

Miguel: now, now I just saw there's like someone went to court to try to take down affirmative action.

Like 

Franca: affirmative action is like gay marriage now. Like we're targeting all sorts of LGBTQIA people. What are you defending? What are you defending? [00:58:00] Why is it only sports washing if it's brown people? Sports washing is a new term, but it's not a new concept. Right? 

Miguel: Yeah. The, maybe 

the word is new, but not the idea of the concept.

Franca: Exactly not the concept. And so you've got like so much hypocrisy around him. Like now Vincent Ma is also like kind of like a, I don't know, like it's just there. This is where we have to look at that nuance, right? Because you can't talk about sports washing, because I talked about this too when I was talking about Manchester United going for sale and like, we hate, we hate Manchester United.

I'm a, I'm a United fan. We hate the ownership, right? But 

Miguel: yeah, my brother's 

a Manchester United fan. He's always complaining about the, you know, 

the ownership. 

Franca: The ownership. But be careful what you wish for. Who has the money? Who has Manchester United money right now? Right? It's like those memes, like do you got McDonald's money?

You know, like ask your mom if you can go to McDonald's. Do you have McDonald McDonald's money? Who has Manchester United money? And why are billionaires looked at as so corrupt? [00:59:00] Only if they're brown, because whoever buys Manchester United is not gonna be any better than the current ownership. I hate to break it to you, right?

Mm-hmm. And so like, I think a, you mentioned Newcastle. Newcastle's gonna be the next city. Newcastle's gonna be the next city. Mark my words. Especially if Pep leaves. 

Miguel: Well look where they 

finished too. This season they're gonna be in the Champions League. This, 

Franca: it's already been like such a thing, and so it's the future.

It's coming. But I do think we need to have these nuanced discussions on like, How we are definitely being racist and like that's, you know, the libs love to, you know, like to pretend that they're, you know, for human rights, but like, they're, they're all racist as fuck too. I always say this, I would rather be stabbed in the front than the back.

Miguel: Yep. 

Franca: I would rather have a fucking fascist tell me they're a fascists in my face than be a liberal and tell me like, oh, I'm an ally and I'm all this bullshit. Meanwhile, you're voting for the same people that are continuing the war machine. So what are you an ally to? 

Miguel: Where echoing Malcolm X here when the white [01:00:00] liberal, that's like exactly what he's talking about. 

Franca: Totally, 

totally.

Not to mention, you know, we, there are countries that are putting out, disclaimers about coming here because of the gun violence thing. Mm-hmm. So you 

Miguel: We just had a mass 

shooting in San Francisco, two days ago, which I didn't even notice. No, it wasn't even like, You know, it wasn't even here locally, but it's not like big news, you know, because it's sad, which the, that's happening, which sad all the 

time.

Franca: It's so sad. It's happening all the time. So you don't live in the epicenter of human rights. Not even close. You actually live in the epicenter of the biggest violators of human rights in the whole entire world in the history, history of humanity, 

probably. How 

dare you judge another country? Like you can have that discussion while always being very mindful that your own country is a perpetrator of human rights abuses too.

And like, people just don't wanna hear that. I think patriotism is fascism light, and it is the last bastion that keeps fascists going. Like they love to, you know, to pretend they're, they're like [01:01:00] progressive or whatever, bullshit. But like, if you continue to support the war machine, you continue to support imperialism like, You hate shit.

Like, yeah. 

Miguel: And like, not 

even an example in sports, but the whole cop city thing in Atlanta, like, oh my god, their leadership is all like Democrats. Exactly. The city. Right. So like the city itself. Exactly. You know, not the governor of Georgia, but like the city itself. 

Franca: And that shit fucked me up, man. The, like, they spent all night advocating and letting their voices be heard and like, then nothing.

Yeah. And then that shit 

still vote. 

Miguel: They still voted to, you know, approve it. Yeah, that was crazy. 

Franca: And that's where you see this is a militarized fucking police state. 

Miguel: Hopefully that wakes up other people. 

You know,

Franca: This is where when I talk a lot about like my DEI stuff like, the DEI space is super like liberalized too, but like, I'm trying to do this like radical, authentic shit and like identity politics, ain't it?

This is why I'm like, you, you gimme a Gusano, like Cuban from Miami fucking rich. [01:02:00] Person. That's not my people we're Latinos, but that's not my people. I will never, like, I have more in common with, I don't know, with a white working class, like, I don't know, like, you know, like radical person than I ever would with a Gusano.

We have nothing in common. That's where identity politics for me, without intersectionality, which is the idea that like, everything comes into play, like including the class piece and everyone seems to forget that. it's, it's not shit. We can't play this identity politics bullshit cause then it leads us to shit like this, it leads us to defending a fucking evil empire like the US is, because the Qatari, you know, are brown. Like, no, no, that's not like, it's bullshit. And at the same time, I don't want that to be the future of football because the money thing is also real, right? Like the ridiculous figures that they are, you know, introducing.

It's, it's literally, it's the downfall. I think it'll be the last, [01:03:00] the last piece to this, slippery slope we're on is when we fully embrace this new model. 

Miguel: so before we end the podcast, just wanna talk about this one last thing before, you know, we finish up here.

 But you also wrote about this on your website, so you could, uh, plug that in right now too, but, um, sure. I wanted to talk about this, you wrote about Copa America and US and European imperialism and you know, it's a great article. You should plug it in right now and then I suggest everyone to read it.

Franca: Thank you so much. My website is www.realfrancamente.com. That article, I think is called This Weekend's Historic Epic Final or something like that. but yeah, I have so many feelings on this. This could be a whole episode, but Copa America is the single most prestigious, in terms of history, international tournament in futbol, including predating the World Cup. So the first international, FIFA [01:04:00] sanctioned tournament was Copa America.

Copa America has such a historical weight okay, so Copa America is the model after which all of the Continental cups are designed, but even the World Cup right. And the Copa America titles that have been won, it's really uncanny at talking about Southern cone supremacy. Uruguay and Argentina have each won it 15 times and the next team that's won it, many times is Brazil with eight.

And then every other country has won it like one or two times. And I think there's one country that's never won it in South America. Okay. But it is like the quintessential it is the, the footprint, like the blueprint. I meant not the footprint, the blueprint for international tournaments, right? That like everywhere, like everyone talks about the Euro Cup being so prestigious, like the Euro Cup is a fucking teenager of a tournament, like chill,

right? It's [01:05:00] really important to maintain the essence of anti-imperialism of South American football and support Copa America. And the fact that the next one's being played in the US really grinds my gears. Okay? Because yes, it is a tournament that's called Copa America. America is a continent. Mm-hmm. Okay.

This is why I say United Station, if we're speaking about the US. America's a continent, right? And Copa America has nothing to America in Copa America, has nothing to do with the US. We don't want you, okay? We don't want you in our cup. We don't want you anywhere near us. You also can't hang. All right? Cuz let's be honest, the US national team is trash, okay?

So don't try to come and colonize the single remaining bastion of anti-imperialism in football, which I realized the reality is that they also are complicit and all that bullshit. But like, let's just try to keep the essence going and like leave [01:06:00] the US out of fucking Copa America because you know what that does?

That leaves out the people that would be able to afford to go to games if they lived in their home continent as they should have a right to go to cuz who can afford to travel to the US and who could afford game tickets at US prices? Guanos and could afford to stay at hotels, right? Guanos. And so who's gonna be able to go like the average Uruguayan

who ha like one of the beasts, one of the two that have won the World Cup, the Copa America the most will not be able to come here for that. They invented this shit, okay. And they won't be able to come here. So what are you doing? That shit pisses me off so much. Like Copa America is my baby man. I have so many thoughts on this, but like the fact that that the next one's being played here, I'm so fucking pissed. Like this is like, you've got your little Gold Cup no offense. Like, but you know, like, like go play your little, your little Gold cup tournament, all right?

Like, go do that. Leave us the big boys and [01:07:00] leave your elders alone and let us have our fucking prestigious, ass tournament. That is that. But I just can't, I can't with the imperialism. And let's remind ourselves of that statistic I said earlier with the U 20 World Cup, piece, right? That like Uruguay, Argentina and Brazil are the

world heavyweights in football. No European country can compete and they will never get over that. They'll never get over that. That's why, you know, there's all this like anti-South American sentiment. But by the way, none of your little European leagues would exist without us. Okay, so let's, let's, let's, 

Miguel: Yeah, 

they wouldn't exist without all the Latino and black players that play on all the teams. 

Franca: No, 

they wouldn't. But then they love to kick those people out of their country unless they're winning them trophies, and that's fucking bullshit. And I'm over it. 

Miguel: And that's a good way to end our episode and, you know, talking to our guest here, Franca.

 So thank you Franca for coming on the podcast. It's finally good to have you [01:08:00] on here. We've, we've about it for months. Been following you for a couple years on Twitter and Instagram, so thank you again. And then before we go, you can plug in, uh, Your podcast and uh, website and all that stuff, your socials and Oh yeah, we were talking about Copa America

She did an episode about that. Um, so check 

that out. 

Franca: Yeah, yeah. Check out my, all my episodes. Thank you so much. This was so fun. I loved it. Again, my podcast is called Real Francamente, and on socials Instagram and Twitter, it's @realfrancamente. And then my website is www.realfrancamente.com and you can find my podcast on YouTube and Spotify and Apple Podcast.

So check me out, follow me, and uh, I hope to do this again. 

Miguel: Oh yeah, you'll be back. I'll have you back on the podcast for sure. And excellent. If you didn't catch all that, it'll be in the show notes too. So thank you Franca for coming on the podcast .Thank you so much. Bye-bye. 

Franca: Bye.

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